Honda, what are you doing...

"Enginerrrrrrrrr" (Enginerrrrrrrrr) 09/05/2018 at 15:36 • Filed to: None

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EDIT : I decided to do some digging and I sorta found the differences...

I just learned that Honda makes the Clarity. They also make the Insight. Both of these cars are hybrids and seem to slot between the Accord and the Civic. The only real difference I can find besides bodywork is the Clarity seems to be a plug-in hybrid. Which... all hybrids should be plug-ins... but whatever.

Honda why.

EDIT: Maybe why?: The Clarity is similar in size to the Accord, but the Accord still has a hybrid version... BUT the Clarity also has a fuel-cell and electric-only version sold in specific places in California... enough of a difference?

the Insight is just a Hybrid Civic. The 10th gen Civic doesn’t have a Hybrid version anymore, so they made a new car for it for some reason that looks more like the Accord than the Civic. Ok I guess...

Clarity:

Insight:

Anyone in the know understand why these are things?

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 15:40

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Th e only difference I see is one has an ugly front, and the other has an ugly rear.

Ash78, voting early and often > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 15:45

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Hell, I still can’t figure out why CR-V vs HR-V except the rear door handles.

I thought the Insight had been killed off...and is the Clarity still a limited-run fuel cell experiment?

Enginerrrrrrrrr > Ash78, voting early and often 09/05/2018 at 15:46

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HR-V does seem smaller, interior-wise, right?

I don’t get why the HR-V exists though...

fintail > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 15:52

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The Clarity is weirder, that’s its niche.  I am surprised by the amount I see on the road around Seattle.

Milky > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 15:52

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The C larity is also has full EV and fuel cell versions. One car, 3 different eco versions. The I nsight is just the new Civic Hybrid, with different facias.

Ash78, voting early and often > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:03

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I’m pretty sure it was just so they could charge more for the CR-V while still pretending to offer something affordable for The Youths.

nafsucof > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:04

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hrv is based on the fit.  only 5 passenger and the crv is 7 passenger now

Ash78, voting early and often > nafsucof 09/05/2018 at 16:07

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The CR-V is three rows now?

I think Honda has relocated a little to o close to Fukushima.

Textured Soy Protein > nafsucof 09/05/2018 at 16:07

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The CR-V is definitely not 7 passengers. 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:08

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The Clarity started out as Honda’s hydrogen car and went into “production” back in 2008 and the first gen model’s production ended in 2014. Though having said that, the production levels were low... really REALLY low... only 46 units leased in the US over 6 years... and a handful more for Europe and Japan.

“In production”.... LOL.

In 2016, they came out with a new Clarity. But since Hydrogen cars have no future, Honda came out with BEV and hybrid versions.

The BEV version is a neutered joke with a range of only 89 miles.

The Plug-in-Hybrid version is probably the best version of the Clarity.

Also note that the Clarity is Honda Accord-ish in size.

By comparison, the new Insight is Honda Civic-ish in size.

The Insight started out as a tiny all aluminum 2 door coupe with mild hybrid powertrain that enabled Honda to say “we have a hybrid too!”.

It could have been a good to great CRX successor. But the people at Honda didn’t share my views and treated it as “Honda’s Hybrid” and never offered any performance versions. And since it didn’t sell well (great fuel economy, but tiny, expensive and nothing special in the performance dept.), it got shitcanned in 2006.

The next gen grew in size as it was based on the Honda Fit platform. That 2nd gen model went into production in 2009 and was shitcanned by 2014... also due to bad sales.

And now the 2019 Insight is based on the current Civic sedan... which I think is a mistake. They should continued offering it in hatchback form.

Personally I think they are wasting their time with the Insight and instead, should reintroduce the Civic HX, HF or VX... versions of past Civics that were tuned for better fuel economy.

And they should bring back a CRX... based on the Fit. And sell 2 versions... a hybrid HF model and a sporty Si version that has some variant of the K-series engine.

And that’s why these are things.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 09/05/2018 at 16:08

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One is bigger, the other is smaller as well.

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 09/05/2018 at 16:10

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The CR-V is just shy of a foot longer than the HR-V.

Ash78, voting early and often > Textured Soy Protein 09/05/2018 at 16:12

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It’s sort of a time warp because the HR-V was around for quite a while before the newer, longer CR-V. I don’t pretend to be a product planner, but their timing of that execution was suspect.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > nafsucof 09/05/2018 at 16:13

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Wait what?

Are you sure you don’t mean Pilot? The CR-V is definitely still 5.

Makes sense for the HRV to be based on the Fit, isn’t the CR0V on the civic chassis?

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:14

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The Clarity is Accord size and is a plug-in hybrid, as opposed to the “normal” Accord Hybrid.

I think they look pretty good and I think it’d make a fantastic commuter.

Textured Soy Protein > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:14

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The Clarity is Honda’s poster child for alternative propulsion technologies (PHEV, EV, Hydrogen) while t he Accord Hybrid is for people who want a normal car with hybrid mileage . There’s no plug-in Accord Hybrid. The Insight exists because Honda still doesn’t know how to compete against the Prius.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/05/2018 at 16:15

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That was a good explanation. I’d say the CR-Z was a good attempt, but they should have made a standard non-hybr id system to make it like the CR-X since hybrid systems were still super heavy then. Then make a souped-up version that actually used the electrical system to make it have some real grunt. Would’ve been an amazing thing, it looks great too!

But yeah the Insight seems totally superfluous...

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 09/05/2018 at 16:16

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The old CR-V is only an inch or so smaller than the current one, and still much bigger than the H R-V.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Ash78, voting early and often 09/05/2018 at 16:17

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CRV like the Civic got too big and too upmarket to do its original job. So they had to make a smaller new car to fill the slot.

Fit came up when the 8th gen Civic became a 5 lugged big boy. and Eventually the Fit based HRV came up because the CRV is HUUUUUGE.

case and point: my Wife thought about getting a CRV because it came in a color she liked a lot, but ultimately decided it was too big of a car for her. However while our Fit was getting work done we had an HRV loaner, after driving it for a day she said it was the perfect size. She liked that it was taller, and a bit mor e powerful than her Fit(about 20hp and 30ft/lbs more, with must mor e on the low end) , but also loved that it wasnt as big as the CRV.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:19

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the insight reminds me of something

Enginerrrrrrrrr > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 09/05/2018 at 16:41

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Yep, the Mazda 3 and the new Accord definitely have a love child...

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 16:49

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The problem with the CRZ is the name (should have just called it the CRX) and the lack of a performance version.

In terms of weight, the last real CRX, the 1991 model, came in at around 2100 pounds.

The CRZ was a little porky due to the hybrid system, but added safety also played a factor.

But that could have easily been fixed by dropping in a K series engine in it... or at least an R-series. 

bhtooefr > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/05/2018 at 17:40

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The CR-Z’s problem isn’t that it was a hybrid.

The CR-Z’s problem was that it was a fat pig of a subcompact sports coupe , and it was a bad hybrid.

To put things in perspective, the Prius c is somewhat bigger, has a similar displacement engine (less powerful, true, but given that the 1NZ-FE has similar power, that’s not particularly important), has what’s most likely a heavier hybrid drive train (power split devices aren’t the lightest, especially when compared to a manual and a ~15 hp electric motor, and it uses a NiMH pack, whereas the later CR-Zs use Li-ion ) , and weighs 200 pounds less than the CR-Z.

And, the CR-Z didn’t even get 40 MPG highway, and got far worse city (especially with the manual).

Yes, I’m well aware that the Prius c is not an enthusiast’s dream car, but Honda could’ve done so much better.

kanadanmajava1 > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 18:23

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The current  C larity FCV looks quite awkward. It looks like a very large body was thrown on tiny wheels.

The 2006 concept FCX looked fairly in te resting. The production version (Clarity FCX) got tamed down quite a lot.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 18:24

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I shit you not, i have seen 2 clarity’s on my local commute in the last few months. Ugh.

But also the Insight has no transmission. what f ucking wizardry is that?

dogisbadob > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 18:49

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Even the new Accord and Civic have the same style too :/

and fuck Honda for only offering the Clarity electric and fuel cell versions in California. And they need to offer a sunroof too.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/05/2018 at 20:27

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I saw it said something like E-CVT, what does that even mean?!

Enginerrrrrrrrr > kanadanmajava1 09/05/2018 at 20:28

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Agreed. I especially hate the rear fenders that slightly cover the wheels.  Like 3 whole inches.  Either cover them, or don’t!!!!

feather-throttle-not-hair > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 20:40

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I’m pretty sure its just direct drive as far as the motors are concerned, though to be honest i read as little about it as I could get away with.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-honda-insight-first-drive-review

Hondajohn88 > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 20:59

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The eCVT is just a marketing name. There really is no conventional Continuously Variable Transmission components in it. It consists of two motors which drive the car and generates/ regenerates electricity for the high voltage battery. These motors allow for enough rpm to motivate the car in most circumstances . There is o ne overdrive gear in the transmission that is used only during high-speed driving, and a hydraulic clutch engages/disengages that gear. Other than the electrical & electronic wizardry inside the transmission and the motor controller unit, it is relatively mechanically simple.

Hondajohn88 > nafsucof 09/05/2018 at 21:02

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Not in the US... It's still 5 passenger.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > Hondajohn88 09/05/2018 at 21:16

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Neat. So similar to what the Koenigsegg Regera does? Just with a final gear?

Fyoeu > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/05/2018 at 22:45

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Was driving home one night, and a Clarity pulled up behind me and I was honestly kind of stunned by it. It was just a “Whoa! WTF is that?!” moment. Can’t say it’s a good looking car, but it did catch my attention with how polarizing it is.

nafsucof > Ash78, voting early and often 09/06/2018 at 21:17

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oh crap i thought that huge growth in the back was to accommodate more seating?  my bad i assumed!

nafsucof > Enginerrrrrrrrr 09/06/2018 at 21:18

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i was under the impression they fit 7 with that big ole back end they added to it